Daily Kos

Sunday Talk

by Jamato

Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:36:17 PM PDT

Update [2005-4-2 23:36:17 by Armando]: From the diaries by Armando.


ABC's "This Week" - Cardinal Bernard Law, former archbishop of Boston; Bishop William S. Skylstad, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Marco Politi, Vatican reporter for La Repubblica; Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson, former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican; former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo.

CBS' "Face the Nation" - Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski; Monsignor Brian Ferme, dean, Catholic University School of Canon Law.

NBC's "Meet the Press" - Archbishop John P. Foley, president, Pontifical Council for Social Communications; Rev. Thomas Reese, editor, America; George Weigel, Ethics and Public Policy Center; Margaret Steinfels, Fordham Center on Religion and Culture; Judge Laurence Silberman and former Sen. Charles Robb, D-Va., chairmen of the presidential commission on intelligence.

CNN's "Late Edition" - Sens. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., and Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.

"Fox News Sunday" - Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.; Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif.

Let us know if it's worth the time!

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 85 comments

  •  Oh boy. Good job, ABC (4.00 / 11)

    Cardinal Bernard Law, former archbishop of Boston

    Because that's exactly who you want discussing the Pope's death:  a paragon of virtue, honesty, and morality like Law.

    Wasn't there ANYONE else they could have got?

    "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

    by Raybin on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:19:00 PM PDT

    •  When you consider most American Catholics (none / 0)

      before the scandal felt he had the best shot at being the first American Pope, he should have an interesting perspective.

      Lunch Lady

      by Lunch Lady on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:22:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Cardinal Law (4.00 / 5)

      used to be one of my favorite Catholic names...the other was Cardinal Sin of the Philippines...

      "Old soldiers never die -- they get young soldiers killed." -- Bill Maher

      by Cali Scribe on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:32:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Law: despicable, smug , (4.00 / 5)

      fatuous, flatulent windbag of phony piety. He literally turns my stomach. He used to be on Boston TV all the time pontificating (excuse the expression). So glad he's gone; he'd better never come back.

      by jane 2000 on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:42:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't forget arrogant,disdainful- (4.00 / 2)

         a total jerk.

        From the time he came to Boston he turned my stomach the way he draaaaagged out eveeeeery wooooord. What was that about?To show how piiiiius he was?

        I'm soooooooo glaaaaad he's goooooone

        by merbex on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:19:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  well (4.00 / 2)

      considering most of the sunday talk shows trot out the ho's

      more respectable choices in the Catholic hierarchy may have declined, thinking there might be different things to do this particular weekend other than trying to turn attention to themselves.

      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

      by Miss Devore on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:57:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The guy belongs in jail (4.00 / 2)

      for enabling hundreds of cases of child abuse. I think the charge would be obstructing governmental administration.

      Instead, he's still a cardinal, with a plush post in Rome, and considered worthy of informed comment by Disney News.

      Eleven US cardinals, and Disney chose the worst!

      The Republicans want to cut YOUR Social Security benefits.

      by devtob on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 08:41:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's the NYT on what people in Boston (none / 0)

      are saying about the Pope and Cardinal Law:

      http://tinyurl.com/3stg3

      The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held... -Bertrand Russell

      by glynis on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:05:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  More info here. (4.00 / 2)

    Sunday Morning Talk

    Panels & topics:


    MEET THE PRESS WITH TIM RUSSERT (NBC)
    Archbishop John Foley; Rev. Thomas Reese; George Weigel; Margaret O'Brien Steinfels on Pope John Paul II.

    Presidential Commission Co-chairmen Charles Robb (Former Governor and U.S. Senator, R-Virginia); Laurence Silberman (Retired Judge, U.S. Court of Appeals, District of Columbia) discuss their WMD Intelligence Report and its implications.

    ......................................................

    THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (ABC)
    Special Edition: George Stephanopoulos reports from Vatican City.

    Cardinal Bernard Law (former Archbishop of Boston)

    From Italy, Bishop William S. Skylstad (President, U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops), Marco Politi, (Vatican reporter, La Repubblica), along with Cokie Roberts (ABC News) discuss the legacy of Pope John Paul II and the process for selecting a new Pope.

    Holding down the fort in Washington, Jim Nicholson (Secretary of Veterans Affairs), Mario Cuomo (US Ambassador to the Vatican; former Governor of New York), along with George Will (ABC News) discuss the role of the Pope in the United States.

    ......................................................

    FACE THE NATION WITH BOB SCHIEFFER (CBS)
    Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski (Former National Security Adviser); Monsignor Brian Ferme (Dean, School of Cannon Law, Catholic University Of America); Peter Steinfels (New York Times Religious Columnist)

    Discussing Pope John Paul II and the Catholic Church.

    ......................................................

    FOX NEWS SUNDAY WITH CHRIS WALLACE (FOX)
    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina); Rep. Jane Harman (D-California).  WMD Intelligence Report.  It's implications on security within the U.S. and Bush's decision to invade Iraq.

    Plus, the impact of Pope John Paul II on the world and the church he has led.  Guests: TBA.

    PANEL: Brit Hume (FOX News); Ceci Connolly (Washington Post); William Kristol (The Weekly Standard); Juan Williams (National Public Radio)


    "The way the loser loses will determine whether the winner wins in November." -- Rahm Emanuel

    by Newsie8200 on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:23:10 PM PDT

    •  PLEASE WATCH ABC, CBS, NBS (3.83 / 12)

      So we're plugging the MSM Spinfest here at DKos again are we?

      Alright. Why don't we go ahead and cop some advertising revenue while we're at it. You know, to feed hungry kids and all.

      Let's calculate the value of the adspace from DK's daily traffic to the front page promotion of these network programs and see if we can feed some homeless. No?

      Alright, let's just give NBC (GE) and CBS (Viacom) and ABC (Disney) some free adspace. How bout on the side. Big Mickey Mouse ears on the right and a microwave oven on the right.

      No? Well let's quantify these Sunday moring shows as valuable information. You know, the way we do with recommended diaries or any other sourse of information.

      Chris Russert: So Mr President, how has your faith guided you in your presidency?

      OK, that's not a direct quote. I'm pretty ure I don't need to Google Time Russert's interviewing style to make my point. If I do, Google it yourself.

      Promoting Sunday morning talkshows here every week is promoting spin, stupidity, the enemy.

      If you anted to do a favor for your country every Sunday morning after you get back from Church, you would post a link to Democracy Now.

      The fact that you're still promoting the Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Biden, Leiberman show is testiment to how enraptured you are to the Mainstream Media.

      I am fully aware that I post this finally on a Sunday where the lineup is unusually diverse.

      Look at the trends. 99% of the time, the right is prominent. We must outrate those trends. We must overcome the rightwing bias in the media, Why the fuck are we promoting them?

      TDV

      by TocqueDeville on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 03:01:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Damn Man (4.00 / 2)

        I could not agree more. What the fuck are we promoting these worthless and generally dispicable shows for? All I ever hear is spin and bullshit. If I could promote something on the front page of this blog it would be alot more valuable that the value we get from Joe Biden spewing the same old shit.

        How about a Sunday morning plug for some really good blogs or websites. That would be usefull.

        Promoting Tim Russert here makes me sick. We can do better. And so can Tim Russert I guess.

        by rocklawyer on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 03:15:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are missing the point (none / 1)

          Most of us watch to see what issues are being pitched and who seems to be pitching them.

          There is a lot of good information presented on Sunday morning, just in who is on and what their agendas seem to be.

          Granted you have to put up with listening to their BS to get it, but that's just part of the game. Sorry.

          Democrats stand for Liberty, Security, Support of Families and Opportunity Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

          by Rick B on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:08:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Great and timely rant, and here's why (none / 0)

        There are lots of alternative media outlets going these days, but they don't get much exposure at all -- most Americans have no idea there is a thing called "Democracy Now." Those of us who do know often keep quiet about it and go off on tirades about the bad and worsening coverage and commentary in the Big Media... I'm as guilty as anybody.

        Yes, we need to know what sort of lies and spin are on the Sabbath Gasbag presentations, but I think we need to know MORE about what is in the alternative media, the public needs to know how, where and when to find it, and we all need to spread access to it. And we need to spend a lot less time fretting over the latest outrage by BidenLieberman on FOX.

        More promotion and cross promotion of alternative media, MUCH less focus on Big Media. They have failed repeatedly and catastrophically, they have not improved since they started hearing from us in numbers (in fact, a case can be made they've become worse), and they really don't care what we think.

        So fuck 'em.

        'K?

        --felix

        by felix19 on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 10:32:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I read here so I don't have to watch (none / 1)

        Sorry- but I love the Sunday round-up.  I understand your arguements, but the fact is that the Sunday shows are important.  Who the admin. sends- who the dems send it says a lot about what they are thinking.

        The great thing about Kos is that everyone can contribute to diaries they want to.  

        Before Franken's book, "Outfoxed" and Media Matters people said we should just ignore Fox- that didn't work out too well for us.  

        Frankly I think it is crazy that people contribute to diaries telling people what they shouldn't pay attention to.  I understand the frustration with the MSM- just ignore it if you want to- but don't force me to.

        by paida on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 11:57:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I love to come here to read (none / 0)

          what those who watched these sideshows say about them. It's often informative and always cathartic.
          I don't watch them, so I'm grateful to those of you who put yourselves through the ordeal.

          Is this wasteful and indulgent? No. I think these comments have their value: we can find ample grounds for agreement about the fools and dolts in power who , time and again, confirm what we think about them. And there's the rare guest who shows a different, more interesting,and unsuspectedly sensible side.

          The reviews you all post about these stroke and blather programs add to our fund of knowledge.I'm in favor of the idea of expanding consideration of more serious and neglected areas, as described above. But let's not stop the Sunday reports. It's part of our education in critical judgment.

          by jane 2000 on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:59:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly (none / 1)

            You wrote exactly what I was trying to write- only you said it better and with out the typos!

            My only defense is that I had a 3 year old trying to "help" me type!

            I used to watch the Sun. shows- but it is just too painful these days.  I do like reading about them though.

            by paida on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 01:10:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  No Schiavo (4.00 / 2)

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 03:41:57 PM PDT

  •  sleep in folks (none / 0)

    if you decide to watch instead wear boots(may need hipboots).The bullshit is gonna be deep.

    http://dumpjoe.com/

    by ctkeith on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:44:55 PM PDT

    •  Rockefeller & Roberts (none / 1)

      Is Rockefeller going to confront Roberts on why they haven't pursued the 2nd half of their WMD investigation? You know, the part about how the faulty intelligence was used and misused by the Bush administration?

      Rockefeller made a huge, obvious blunder by going along with the "blame the CIA" report last summer, putting off the investigation into how the intel was used to send the country to war until after the election.  Now that the election is past, Roberts has claimed that this part of the investigation is on the "back burner".

      If Rockefeller doesn't confront him over this, he might as well just turn in his Man Card. The Republicans have shown no decency or civility, so Rockefeller has no reason to be cordial to that a--hole.

      Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!

      by existenz on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:23:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Beranard Cardinal "Law" (none / 1)

    So, ABC's got the Head Pedarist in Charge?  Let me guess. . .Coming to talk about the soon-to-be-by-popular-demand-a-saint-formerly-known-as-the-pope.

    Well, puts me in mind of pots. . .and kettles.

    They burn our children in their wars and grow rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

    by Limelite on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 08:50:40 PM PDT

    •  Law (none / 0)

      That guy won't be elected Pope and he's harmless now. Unfortunately, lots of the administration in Boston that was responsible for abusive clergy returning to their posts is still in place. Some of the Msgrs. and priests running the show in Boston are bad news, even though I like O'Malley for the most part.

      Think Blue. 11/04/2008.

      by blueshades on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:43:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can hardly believe it (none / 0)

    They're actually talking about stuff that is important and meaningful to tens of thousands of people, like the death of the Pope and the WMD report. What's the matter with them?  No Schiavo and the "culture of life", no Delay and the "activist judges", no "nuclear option", no social security, no Jackson? They've really lost it, haven't they.

    Do not go gentle into that good night. Blog, blog against the dying of the light. CathiefromCanada

    by CathiefromCanada on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:02:49 PM PDT

  •  Law (4.00 / 3)

    "Cardinal Bernard Law, former archbishop of Boston"

    I wrote it before and I'll write it again:  this man should be in jail.

    by bella on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:05:51 PM PDT

  •  Bernie "The Pimp" Law??? (4.00 / 4)

    I never tune into those talk programmes and hardly take notice of who's talking when, but today, to see that name at the top of the list, well I suppose it's the only way for the corporate media to end a lousy week. Things seem to be getting more absurd, more horrible by the minute. If they aren't providing a U.S. representative national air time to  call for the death of judges whose decisions he disagrees with, they invite a disgraced, disgraceful brute with no sense of shame or decency to speak about PJPII. There are better, more sensitive, more informed people available who can truly offer insights and informed comment on issues that this country faces and the world face. This is making me nostalgic for two weeks ago, when things seemed so much better. </snark>

    In 2006, the Congress; in 2008, the White House; in between, out of Iraq.

    by Nina on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:10:56 PM PDT

  •  The hagiographic slobberfest continues (4.00 / 2)

    It would be nice to hear a balanced analysis of his pontificate.  But if I held my breath I'd turn blue.

    "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

    by fishhead on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:20:26 PM PDT

    •  I saw that last night on NY PBS... (none / 0)

      probably a repeat, but it certainly explains what manner of man JP2 was.

      Yeeeeccchhhhh.  The guy had issues.

      An untypical Negro...since 1954.

      by blksista on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:12:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  John Paul (none / 1)

        reformed the administration of the papacy (important when you remember that corruption caused the Reformation), expanded the voice of the common people in Catholicism, fought communism (credit belongs more to him than to the Cowboy for the fall of the Svoiet Empire IMHO), and tried to hel the rift between both the Anglican and Orthodox churchesand Catholicism.  He is a landmark.  Many middle aged Catholics can remember no other pope.  He not only talked the talk, he wlaked the walk.  He stood for peace and brotherhood...but was not niave.  He was willing to "get hishands dirty" to promote the causes he believed in. Whether you agreeor disagree with him, he was a man of deep and abiding principle...perhaps one of only 2 or 3 popes in the last 1500 years who were not mere politicians.

        "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

        by TheGryphon on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 08:03:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  His deep and abiding principles included... (none / 1)

          ...the denigration of homosexuals, over and over and over again.

          ...the inability to deal with women as full equals to men.

          ...ordering his subordinates to spread false and misleading information about AIDS transmission and condom use, with the result that many were condemned to slow and painful deaths.

          I could do with a lot less of those deep and abiding principles and a lot more of Jesus, thankyouverymuch.

          by Mirele on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:29:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Give me Pope John XXIII (none / 0)

          over John Paul II any day.  Anyone too young to remember John XXIII and Vatican II is much the poorer for it.  He is the one who brought the Church out of the Middle Ages and into the modern world.  He was a real breath of fresh air.

          John McCain--he's not who you think he is.

          by Mimikatz on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:19:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  ok... (none / 0)

    Here's a bet from one who has no TV:  Everyone will praise the dead Pope as a great statesman and dig out film clips they never bothered to show at the time.  Some will even go so far as to compare the Pope's death with that of Terri Schiavo.  And no one at all will mention Tom DeLay.

    "The lusts for power and goods are all that remain once imagination and wonder have fallen away"--Me

    by krome on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:22:37 PM PDT

  •  Yanks/Redsox/Sin City (none / 0)

    I just hope the Yanks-Redsox game isn't rained out. Sin City in the afternoon. Doesn't look like that many video clips to post tomorrow. Crooksandliars
    has Maher's New rules posted. Bill had the best Mary Cheney line so far about her book deal. He's been pretty bad this season, but this New Rules was funny.
     

    by Jamato on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:23:33 PM PDT

  •  OMG (none / 0)

    Would Cardinal Law like to return to Boston for his interveiw - or is he afraid that he would be arrested for obstruction of justice ?

    We are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy unless it obstructs interstate commerce. - J. Edgar Hoover

    by tiponeill on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:34:47 PM PDT

  •  RIP Karol Wojytla (none / 0)

    If anyone wants a less anti-John Paul II blogging experience tonight:

    http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00011818.html

    Thanks to Dean and the crew for putting together a nice message congratulating the Pope on the good battles he fought.

    Think Blue. 11/04/2008.

    by blueshades on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:41:16 PM PDT

  •  Jesus Fucking christ (none / 1)

    I know the bobble head shows are on a sunday, but do we have to have a religious revivial for the second week in a row ?

    what the fuck is this country coming to ?

    Buckeye State Blog

    by Pounder on Sat Apr 02, 2005 at 09:53:38 PM PDT

  •  Vatican nights (none / 0)

    Evidently the Vatican has decided to go on a big, mournful charm offensive, in the wake of the mediagenic, media-maniacal and media-addicted pope who has just died. What could these holy men possibly have to say? How much are they being paid? Oh, Piety Triumphant in Mammon, the latest opera by Handel. You must see it, its a week long gas featuring millions of extras around the world, including all the best-known TV evangelicals. The Sunday morning headline reads: Jockeying for position, cardinals appear on U.S. television like media whores not even twenty-four after the death of their Beloved Leader. The trash factor rises by the second.

    by Quentin on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 01:37:07 AM PDT

  •  Papal opinion (none / 0)

    The most right-on remark I ever heard about this pope was made by a Lesbian who asked when his holiness was on one of his periodic gay-bashing streaks:

    'Didn't his mother ever tell him, if you're not going to say anything nice, don't say anything at all?'

    That about sums up the man for me. You can only wonder how such celibate men get to find out so much about the nitty-gritties of sex. He said nice things only about mommies, daddies and babies: the rest of humanity had to learn to toe the line.

    by Quentin on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 02:53:54 AM PDT

    •  his mom died when he was very young (none / 0)

      I think it explains some of the women on pedestal thinking that he has.  His mom didn't get a chance to teach him much.  His dad died when he was 21 so JPII was an orphan early in his life.

      He was fairly progressive for an 84 year old man, but I think most 80+ year olds are fairly strongly against homosexuality unless they have had to deal with it up close and personal.

      We are blaming a man for living the morals he grew up with.

      by Mlle L on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 07:52:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  um, yeah? don't we always? (none / 0)

        That's what Frederick Douglass and MLK did - blamed all the people around them who just lived the morals they grew up with. That's what reformers do otherwise there would never be any change. Social change would be impossible, if people were just allowed to "live the morals they grew up with."

        In fact, not everyone does, which is what provides the impetus to change in the first place, and a few of those speak out. Most people are moral cowards, most people refuse to leave their comfort zones. The ones who don't, often end up like Oscar Romero - who was under censure from the Vatican, this very same pontiff, in the year before he died, because his eyes had been opened after the violence finally took a friend of his. Before that, he'd believed it was all leftist lies.

        "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

        by bellatrys on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:45:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Up close & personal (none / 0)

        He was a priest in the Catholic church - a profession populated by gay men slightly below hair stylists and interior designers - of course he had to deal with homosexuality up close and personal.

        To say that ignorance is his excuse is not applicable.

        by seanflynn on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:02:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think you might be quite surprised... (none / 0)


        I think most 80+ year olds are fairly strongly against homosexuality unless they have had to deal with it up close and personal.

        With age comes wisdom and a lot of the elderly have private epiphanies about what they've been led to believe their whole lives.

        You should try talking to a wide sample, see what you find out...

        .
        .
        .
        We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in - some of us just go one god further
        -- Richard Dawkins

        by deafmetal on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:23:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What? No Joe Biden this week!!?? (none / 0)

    I'm sooooo disappointed. </snark>

    I really have a hard time stomaching these Sunday shows at all, i.e., Russert, Stephanopolous, as they appear to do their best to repeat Karl Rove's talking points each week. Easier to just ignore and pick up the real news from foreign sources and blogs...

    Cindy McCain: "In Arizona The Only Way To Get Around The State Is By Small Private Plane"

    by assyrian64 on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 03:32:22 AM PDT

    •  2nd string (none / 1)

      No Biden, and no McCain. Why even bother broadcasting today. Of course, they do have the 2nd string camera hogs, Graham and Rockefeller, so I guess that means they'll bring in the 2nd string hosts.

      by Kivu on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 05:57:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I just dashed off an email to ABC (none / 1)

    Begging them to yank the Bernie Law segment.  What were they thinking?  This is not the time for controversy or sensationalism -- and what else can they expect from giving publicity to a man who had to resign in disgrace for his role in ignoring the child abuse by priests under his leadership?

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    "Right wing freak machine" General Wes Clark

    by Tracker on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 05:56:17 AM PDT

  •  I guess all the other archbishops and cardinals... (none / 1)

    ...are en route to the Vatican. I don't know how else to explain the stupifying choice of Law to talk  about the pope's legacy on what is supposed to be a solemn day.

    For those who don't know, [former] Cardinal Law was responsible for shuffling around those priests who had been accused of sexually assaulting children. These included Father John Geoghan, who went on to molest more young boys at another church after Law became aware of the accusations and personally signed the paperwork necessary to move him to another parish. Prior to that, he had to have been the most self-congratulatory, bombastic cardinal there was, going on television at any chance he could.

    by wicked words on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:08:00 AM PDT

    •  I was just about to ask (none / 0)

      Is Law still entitled to use the title "Cardinal?"  Is it something like "Senator" or "Judge" or "President," in that it's a lifetime honorific even if one no longer holds the office?

      I note that the newsies don't emphasize (or, apparently, even mention) the "former" part for Law.

      What a hosebag.  I cannot believe ABC would have the gall to trot him out there on a day like today ... or any day, for that matter.

      Join the snark-a-thon at Blast Off!, for a unique view of Florida and national politics!

      by Sinfonian on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:16:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  a Cardinal is a Cardinal (none / 1)

        until he either becomes Pope, dies or is defrocked out of the priesthood altogether.  it's kinda like a pay grade in the priesthood.  first, you're a priest, then a monsignor, then a bishop, archbishop, etc....he just lost his job at the boston store and was transferred to headquarters.  as a matter of fact, they used to incorporate the Cardinal as part of their name...Bernard Cardinal Law, John Cardinal O'Connor.  don't know when they stopped that or if the church still does it but the media doesn't?

        by lpettit4662 on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:52:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Law is not retired; he has a nice job in Rome (none / 0)

          as archpriest of Santa Maria Maggiore, one of the city's four basilicas.

          This is Law's reward for betraying his church and his pope.

          The Republicans want to cut YOUR Social Security benefits.

          by devtob on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:07:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Titles (none / 0)

        Most American ranks are rank-in-job, that is, you take the job and hold the rank for the period that you hold the job.

        Military officer rank and ranks in the Catholic church are rank-in-person. Once you obtain the rank, you carry it with you for life until it is replaced by a higher one or otherwise resigned, discarded or removed. You keep it even if you aren't performing the job.

        However, there are a LOT of Cardinal-level jobs in the Vatican.

        Democrats stand for Liberty, Security, Support of Families and Opportunity Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over

        by Rick B on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:40:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Par for the course (none / 1)

    As usual, women are vastly underrepresented.  Today it's two guests out of 17 (batting average of .117, or 11.8% for the non-baseball-oriented among you).

    That's almost precisely the percentage for all of 2005.  Nice going, networks.

    Join the snark-a-thon at Blast Off!, for a unique view of Florida and national politics!

    by Sinfonian on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:11:10 AM PDT

  •  Anyone gonna ask Zbig if he still thinks... (none / 1)

    that provoking the war in Afghanistan was a good idea, and that militant Islam is no big deal compared to engineering the downfall of Russia?

    Blowback's a bitch, baby.

    "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

    by bellatrys on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 06:57:29 AM PDT

  •  The real individuals (none / 0)

    that have ethics, compassion, empathy, character, honesty and all the traits that make someone heroic in everyday life are never held up to the praise they deserve unless they are dead, if then, the Sunday talk shows are a prime example of this in America.
    PEACE!

    by PC on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 07:29:14 AM PDT

  •  No intel talk on NBC (none / 0)

    They spent the entire time on the first guests.  Rightfully so.

    Bamacrat
    http://www.bamacrat.com

    by Bamacrat79 on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 07:50:54 AM PDT

    •  appropriate?!?! (4.00 / 2)

      in what way, shape or form is that appropriate?

      He's dead. He didn't speak for Americans. He's not a political leader, though he strengthened the odious right-wing of the Church in service of our political right-wing. All of this fawning serves to distract from REAL, ONGOING problems, while reinforcing the right-wing idea that "this is a Christian nation."

      He's fucking dead. He's not any more dead today than he was when Reuters let his death slip early, and two straight days of a Reagan-like deification serves no good societal and political purpose. Go to fucking mass to say goodbye, don't highjack the civil discourse for a second week (on top of the exploitation of poor Ms. Sciavo's slowly dying body) that the "religious" have brought civic life to this country to a standstill.

      There was a massive attack on Abu Grabe. Iraq is spinning more and more out of control. The economy is still very, very weak. More people lose their insurance every day. Our educational system is being dismantled by right-wing zealots. Through his entire time as President, Bush has done nothing about fixing a intelligence infrastructure HIS ADMINISTRATION helped undermine, something that needs to be dealt with as our ports, airports, train stations, nuclear plants, chemical plants and tanker farms remain unprotected, and blathering about a dead man is ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE.

      Unfuckingbelievable.

      One Tin Liberal Street Fighter Rides Away ...

      by Madman in the marketplace on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 10:48:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  McLaughlin (none / 0)

    said that Giullani will be running against Spitzer for NY Governor.

    by Rally Burger on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:09:28 AM PDT

  •  Enough already! (4.00 / 4)

    I generally watch parts of the Sunday talk shows, zipping through the commercials and Repugs (I have a Tivo-like recorder), but today it seemed to be wall-to-wall Dead Pope stuff -- so I just turned the damn thing off.  Can't one channel be brave enough to offer something besides "continuing coverage" of a corpse who made his living promoting superstition and fighting sexuality?

    by NYLefty on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 09:17:04 AM PDT

    •  Thats more than a little harsh, dontchathink? (none / 0)

      I mean, we may deplore the Church's stance on homosexuality, but it is a centurys old stance. To blame John Paul for supporting "traditional values" in the church is a little off.  Balme him for not punishing pedarists, blame him for not believing info about how AIDS is transmitted, blame him for not speaking up loudly enough about the deaths of non-christians, but I don't think it is fair to blame him for maintaining a centurys-long bias against homosexuals.

      "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

      by TheGryphon on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 10:19:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd say the description was pretty spot on. n/t (none / 0)

        .
        .
        .
        We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in - some of us just go one god further
        -- Richard Dawkins

        by deafmetal on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 12:19:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Bias against homosexuals" (none / 0)

        My comment about the pope and sexuality wasn't just  about homosexuality, but rather about his stand against all sexuality that doesn't involve vaginal intercourse by married couples who have never been divorced and who never use (shudder) "artificial" birth control. The latter especially sends me up the wall, because the birth control ban has been responsible for millions (!) of people living and dying in extreme poverty.

        by NYLefty on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 02:42:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Silberman?? (none / 0)

    Isn't he the guy that David Brock (in "Blinded By The Right") described as his father-figure/mentor in Washington?  Here's a guy that encouraged Brock's hit pieces on Anita Hill and the Clintons appearing as a pundit?  Anything the man says is suspect.

    When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Emerson

    by foolrex on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 11:33:41 AM PDT

  •  whether we like it or not (none / 0)

    This pope will be looked back as a huge figure of our lifetime.  However I totally agree that there are tons of other things they need to be talking about.

    The sad this is that if the Pope had not died there is no guarantee that the MSM would be talking about the intel report- more likely they would spend the hour talking about the Jackson trial and Johnny Cochran's death.  Just remember the day they decided to drill in Alaska all the news was talking about was Scott Peterson's death sentence.  Compaired to those things I guess the Pope's death does look significant.  

    The whole media is broken.  

    by paida on Sun Apr 03, 2005 at 01:16:34 PM PDT

Permalink | 85 comments